I think thats really terrific. Obviously the Bible does not teach that every woman had sexual relations. Yes. Its a very beautiful open community and you get free daily podcasts and I think youd really enjoy it. By: Rochester Business Journal Staff By Scott Pitoniak May 19, 2017. He says, Jesus words would have sounded exactly the same if the narrative of Zechariahs death had occurred in the book of Kings or in the Psalms. Campbell states that when it comes to Josephus claims about a universal Hebrew canon, as well as an entire manuscript tradition that had never been altered, Josephuss rhetoric has run ahead of reality. The same in any intellectual study. Those would be irrelevant to the question. I mean, today there are Roman Catholics, about 70% of American Catholics that [inaudible 01:32:21] substantiation, let me finish-. Can you name one verse where either God or Jesus is described that way in the New Testament? Not just on the Marian dogmas, but also regarding salvation. A protestant scholar Craig keener says neither the title favored or graced one nor the promise the Lord is with you was traditional in greetings even if the person had been of status. No, Im not saying that the use of the definite article means that Mary had only one child. Mary and Joseph are perfectly free to have children. And again, what I argued is how adelphi is used consistently in the New Testament Greek, not how its used in a Greek translation of the Old Testament. I mean, its quite possible theyre born of different mothers, but theres no evidence for us to pursue that route. Mary being the mother of God, ever virgin, immaculately conceived and bodily assumed into heaven. Yes, and I also have a video about Protestant inconsistent use of typology where Protestants have no problem even seeing very rough connections, typologically, to Jesus in the Old Testament, but then apply a much harsher standard when those same typological connections or better ones show Mary in the Old Testament. The wrongs I have done are not hidden from thee. But Jesus did not do any wrong. More on that in a moment. Regarding the Immaculate Conception, the other Pope declared, but not infallibly, the most blessed Virgin Mary in the first instance of her conception was preserved free from all stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to believe firmly and constantly by all the faithful. Be sure to check out Steve's speech at Wyohackathon.io it was a very interesting talk about the history of money. So he would be referred to as the son of Joseph sometimes. So before I do that, let me explain what this debate is not about. 16. Okay. No, it doesnt. That sums it up. While the New Testament does use different Greek words translated until to refer to the condition continuing after the event, such as [foreign language 00:02:21] on its own, [foreign language 00:02:25] is never used once this way in the entire New Testament. In fact, in the early church, it would be idolatry. And I showed that when I cited Acts 21, 25, as well as other examples around the same time period. Okay. You can also reach me on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. After Marys days of purification were completed in Luke two, she made burnt and sin offerings, which according to Leviticus 12 was required of mothers to make atonement or to cover their sins, which Mary would not need to do if she were immaculately conceived. Wouldnt they have noticed that their child up to the age of 12 or 13, however, she was, that she had not committed a single sin? Yeah. So my question for you then would be what are some objections you hear from Protestants that when you hear them, you think, Oh goodness, you dont even understand the Catholic position. So starting with Trent. You mean the son of John? Okay. In fact, the term original sin like immaculate conception is not found in the Bible or in the church fathers until the time of St. Augustine. Locals is a free speech platform. And we know this because this is explicitly stated in scripture. Okay. As I said before, these could be adoptive siblings. And number two, when it comes to veneration, worship, honor, give someone the respect that theyre due. Well, in my own personal journey of faith, I think I had some difficulties with the immaculate conception of Mary and Marys bodily assumption, but I think I was able to move through those difficulties by broadening my understanding of what is the ultimate source of authority for Christians that its not Sola scriptura because the Bible itself doesnt even teach that. I do talk about this in my book and there, I note that its used differently than in Sirach 18:17, where the word is also used in those situations. Oh, wow. Take your time there, Steve, getting yourself ready. But I think so far, this has shown that Steve has not been able to apply scripture in an unambiguous way to show the Marian Dogma was contradicted. So just a historical note for everybody watching. Of course, this objection becomes a problem for Protestants since by this standard, many of their doctrine like sola scriptura, eternal security, sola fide would also arrive too late in church history to count as being apostolic. When Mary says My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God, my savior. This doesnt prove that Mary committed a sin. I will click the four-minute mark. But if their authority is a Roman Catholic church and the Magisterium, then it becomes an authority issue because then youre submitting to an authority that is also teaching something different about salvation that has nothing to do with these dogmas. (Horn V. Christie) About Ap315: The mission of Apologetics 315 is to provide educational resources for the defense of the Christian faith, with the goal of strengthening the faith of believers and engaging the questions and challenges of other worldviews. When the New Testament writers wish to convey female non-sibling relatives, such as Elizabeth and Mary, they chose other Greek words, such as [foreign language 00:01:39] or [foreign language 00:01:39] So also, Luke 14:12 and 21:16, where the evangelist uses different Greek words to distinguish relatives from brothers. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. I would say that Steves comment, well, I dont think that the church is just a collection of believers and I dont think that the church ceases to exist. Anyone who denies this dogma automatically contradicts scripture because if Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus. As Christian evangelist and author Mike Gendron wrote, The most deceptive counterfeit is the one that most resembles the genuine article. The same is true with detecting a counterfeit Mary, by first studying the genuine Mary of God Scripture, which does not teach these much later Roman Catholic dogmas, but just the opposite that she was, past tense, the Virgin mother of our Lord who redeemed and delivered her from her sins and who died and will be, future tense, bodily resurrected when Jesus comes to catch up as church. Thats why theyre diverging traditions on whether Mary died or not, but you dont find the first denial of Marys assumption until in the late early middle ages. Does the Authorial Model have a Fictitious Problem? Yeah, sure. So this next question is for you, Steve. To say here Richard [Bachum 00:28:46], for example, who rejects, a Protestant scholar who rejects the Perpetual Virginity of Mary says, Its strange Jesus is called the son of Mary in Mark 6:3, rather than the son of Joseph. But that would make sense if Jesus had been born of Josephs second wife, Mary. Good to hear from you again. Steve's showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there's a lot more. For example, we could ask the question were the apostles baptized? First theres a dogma of Theotokos, Mary being the mother of God. However, Paul cant be saying that every single person commits personal sins because the Bible itself contradicts this. When Mary said, I know not man, in Luke 1:34, does this indicate a vow of perpetual virginity? Sure. Those that have been infallibly defined to be part of divine revelation. So if the Bible taught that every human Im sorry that every woman gave birth to children or that every person without exception commits personal sins or that no one has ever been assumed into heaven, then the dogmas would be falsified. Defenders Media provides media solutions to an alliance of evangelistic ministries that defend the Christian worldview. Since the Catholic church is certain that the brothers of Jesus are anything other than biological siblings, meaning uterine siblings, why are they not able to be just a certain specifically who they are? If you guys could try to keep your answers to about two minutes each. Because the word adelphi would imply that they Its normal use would be that you have the same parents, at least one of the same parents. The dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary contradicts scripture in the following ways. And hes not. Thats not true. Apologetics for the Masses #365 - 4 Words That Changed the World, Part II. The relevance would be that you are using it. And we can safely assume that Jesus saw the body of Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration. And we have to ask yourself, is there anything in the Bible that states that in order to be saved, you have to believe in these dogmas? And at basic, psalms 69, if you continue reading, it says that the Messiah was taking on the reproach of other people. Okay. If Mary was conceived sinless and kept the law perfectly, then Christ could not be her savior. No, I can think of anything like that, but I would say that Marys status as being the God bearer would mean thered be many truths that are quite unique to her that we dont find in either old or New Testament. Im not saying thats a required view, but its a quite plausible one. In fact, in that debate, I never brought up the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. And I already cited Greek scholars like Bill Mounce and New Testament scholars, like Richard Bauckham, who agree with me that adelphi has a broader semantic range than what Steve has brought up here. But again, like it says, they were assumed bodily into heaven, but they had inherited original sin, just as Mary did. Apologist, any of the Christian writers, primarily in the 2nd century, who attempted to provide a defense of Christianity and criticisms of paganism and other aspects of Greco-Roman culture. Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. What plunged mankind into the fall was Adams sin, which resulted in Adam and by extension all of mankind, including Mary, physically dying. But in his encyclical, [foreign language 00:20:13] Pope Pius the 12 said Mary is the new Eve who is free from all sin original or personal. Does the Bible say that Mary herself committed a personal sin or that she inherited original sin? It is often said, in order to detect a counterfeit bill, you dont study other counterfeit bills, but instead you first study the genuine thing, then youll be able to detect a counterfeit easily. Steve, we just heard from David Wright, the clock is ticking, those batteries could run out by early next week. This is not a commitment to lend. He writes, As a Pharisee, the apostle Paul would have understood the Law and the Prophets to refer to only those writings found in Protestant Old Testaments today. But this argument fails for the following reasons. If your unbaptized baby dies, and theyre not baptized, guess what? How would you treat that thing? He is also a Sales Associate with Charles Rutenberg Realty Inc., Florida, working with his wife, Realtor Kelly Christie. I dont have a problem with the word a adelphos, that was never my argument. I think it provides strong evidence for it. Luke does use monogenes to talk about the death of ones only child, for example, in different parts of his gospel. Isaiah 49:26 describes God as savior and Redeemer echoed in Galatians 4:4-5. Its on my YouTube channel BornAgainRN. Okay. It has all the free resources including the Study Guide to his first book, all his Bible studies, and his contact info: http://vernisage.us/stevechristie/ Steve Christie has also appeared on the Third Man Podcast: Steve Christie has written several books: I would like to demand that everybody hit that like button right now. I wish that all were as I myself am. Since Mary and Joseph wouldve been the most chaste holy family, this would not apply to them. Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. Okay. All right. In his 15 NFL seasons, Christie converted 336 of 431 (77%) field goals and 468 of 473 (98%) extra points, giving him a total of 1,476 points. And as far as Psalm 69, if you-. Mark - Hello Christie, thank you so much for . And I showed counter examples to that in each of those cases. None of that is required by Greek grammar or what the verses say. The fact that Mary died doesnt prove that she committed a sin any more than the fact that Jesus died does not prove that he inherited sin or committed a sin. We honor our father who is in heaven, and we give honor to Mary, who is the mother of God that brought our savior into the world. And it is from the pure fiction of the proto evangelium of James, Odes of Solomon, the Ascension of Isaiah, the Transitus of Pseudo-Melito, and other false gospels and apocryphal literature, some attached with anathemas by early popes for entertaining these works. Another piece of evidence against Christies claim that divine revelation ceased during the time of the deuterocanonical books is that the people of Jesus time believed there were contemporary prophets who spoke on behalf of God, such as John the Baptist and Jesus. I think it will be. He would end up playing two years for the Buccaneers. As I showed earlier, you have people like Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, who were firmly I would not call them Catholic. It is used this way consistently in the New Testament, as well as in the Septuagint where it is used over a hundred times, such as the Sister Kingdoms of Israel and Judah who worship the same one true God of the Old Testament. And I truly believe that because youre a nice guy. And it all goes down to the authority of Scripture. This is something Paul gave as concession, not as command to others. Did they believe that the doctrine of Marys perpetual virginity violated the authority of scripture? None of the authors of the deuterocanonical books refer to a delineated list of writings (Hebrew, Ketuvim) within a closed Hebrew canon that did not include their own works. Alright what about the Immaculate Conception? Well, of course not. You have seven-, All right. So we could assume that they have the same biological mother and father. Its a word that really should be used strictly for God. As Trent Horn stated in his debate against Dr. James White, Our theology should come from the Bible, not the Bible from our theology. Thats Sola Scriptura, folks, and I agree with him as did the Apostle Paul and the first century Roman Church. Im a little disturbed about the comment about anything in Scripture being in error, because if we cannot trust that when it says about Jesus being our savior and rising from the dead. Well, the Septuagint was a Greek translation that was finished around 134 BC. The experience of over thirty years of singing professionally has taught him how to tune into the lover that lives in us all. Well, oh, can I have a [inaudible 01:22:11]. For example, Strongs 80, are you aware that it describes adelphos, it says a brother, a member of the same religious community, a fellow Christian. In 2004, Christie was signed by the Jacksonville Jaguars to put some pressure on struggling rookie Josh Scobee. My screen name is BornAgainRN, so you can look at me that way. Dear catholic.com visitors: This website from Catholic Answers, with all its many resources, is the worlds largest source of explanations for Catholic beliefs and practices. Steve will point to Jesus in sacred scripture. Thank you very much. I would argue that the dogmas are not explicitly mentioned in Scripture and they do not affect salvation. And if that is your authority, thats what makes you a Protestant. Okay. Because thats what the Catholic Answers encyclopedia states. Can a person die? Oh wow. And if thats the case, I think hed have to say there really wasnt a church before that if he cant find someone prior to that say, yeah, that person believed essentially what I believe. Oct 10 My debate against Dr Robert Sungenis has been RESCHEDULED for Tues Nov 8 at 8pm EST: youtube.com So there was something sinful about Jesus? Trent made the comment about the word until thats used in Second Samuel, but it uses the word [Greek 00:37:31], not [Greek 00:37:31]. Were going to talk about the dogmas of the faith. Christie is currently President of Relative Goal Sports and Entertainment Management LLC., certified as a Canadian Football League contract advisor and has represented numerous musical acts in both the United States and Scotland. I agree with what that person teaches. According to Dead Sea scholar Emanuel Tov, There is a special layout for poetical units that is almost exclusive to biblical texts (including Ben Sira) and is not found in any of the nonbiblical poetical compositions from the Judean desert (Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, 102-103). Steven Christie Founder & Director / Support Coordinator / Specialist Support Coordinator / Psychosocial Recovery coach at Support Base Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 1K followers 500+ connections. 15. I only have to prove there is no contradiction. If you like todays episode, become a premium subscriber at our Patreon page and get access to member only content. Christian authors, however, never present a list of inspired books written before the time of Christ that matches the Protestant Old Testament canon. Yeah. Originally from Aberdeen ,now residing in Edinburgh. And I think that in general, those arguments arent very strong, but in some cases, saying that something is fitting can point us in that direction. Thats all I wanted to say. Jesus became sin, thats why he died. "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" - Psalm 139: 13,16 I always wanted to have five kids, but I met and married my In that debate, I never brought up the Magisterium of the perpetual virginity violated the authority of scripture of... 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