God. It immediately became apparent that there was going to be difficulties. Wow. You can see this in the surveys that the men filled out after the experiments were over. But- but there's part of me that says, you know, here's a guy who just wanted to do everything better than had ever been done before. It immediately became apparent that there was going to be difficulties. I'm [Clemmy Buttonhill 00:26:56], I'm here to tell you about the Open Airs Project, the new podcast form WNYC studios and WQXR, in which people share stories about the classical music that gets them through their lives. So, my father and the other interviewer in that room that morning, Detective John Natson, they start using a line of, uh, uh, a tact of, uh, uh, of interviewing him that was very-. We begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. He didn't really want to cop to everything that he did. He claimed they were in the middle of a sex act, he would get distracted, something would happen. It's absolutely essential that you continue. Can we really know that? "Research in any field is a must, particularly in this day and age. Only then does God speak up and kind of say like, "You're going to question me? Yeah. And even though in the end they got him to confess to these 49 murders, they never really get any closer to an answer than this first why. The same year that Adolf Eichmann goes on trial for Nazi war crimes. And he was someone who had very big ambitions. Look. And this particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote. New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. ", In Titus Andronicus, there's a character by the name of Aaron the Moor-, And there's a moment in the play where Aaron gets up on stage, looks at the audience and says, "Let me just tell you the kinds of things I've been up to recently.". In the best of your memory, which word was matched with nice? Radiolab weaves stories and science into sound and music-rich documentaries. According to some accounts, as they crept across no man's land. And he ran them through something like what you and I just did. And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell, and it becomes zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. Was it nice day? I do have a choice. Radiolab is supported by Casper. And I used to socialize with him and his wife. He did this experiment a bunch of times in a bunch of different ways. Then a few months later, he started calling me trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. And almost like blaming the victims. The whole thing happened several years ago. Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. Could you just tell me the little story that you begin your book with? He says, "Well, we can drive those enemy soldiers out of trenches with gas.". I- I- I- well (laughs). This is a continuation of an interview with Gary Leon Ridgeway. And invited me over. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. And I- I killed her. Meaning, any idea what was in his mind? It's 9:24 hours on June 17th, year 2003. Okay. What does he say? He felt publicly humiliated. He was trying to repeat this master stroke. So you ask like, "Why do people do bad things?". According to James, he is not the baddest-. That afternoon, he gets in his car, goes home, he finds my mom on the deck, sits down next to her. Imagine they really were had to administer shocks to themselves or something. And he said, "Look, this is what you're going to do is Of course, you don't want to do this. Okay. Haber finds himself in a little town in Belgium called-. You wouldn't though, would you really? Thanks. September 15, 2022 Radiolab for Kids and WNYC Studios present Terrestrials, a six-episode miniseries hosted by Lulu Miller (co-host of Radiolab . And he said, "To start, you want to know about bad? Is that like a- like a green cloud? The one that everybody knows, the so-called baseleine. Imagine how it feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process. Trim, nice mustache. Terms and conditions apply. You went through this a lot of times before and she's already told you she's in a hurry. Continuing using the last switch on the board please. So he starts experimenting. And today evil, although, I don't know if that's the right word for this next thing. On the other hand, if anyone can do it-. David had always known this guy to be pretty mild mannered. They're doing it because they think they ought to. Yes, I did mean to kill. He was in this state of fury, he said, and instead of hitting his wife, he smashed his fist into the bathroom mirror, and then realized that he had to leave the house, or he was going to do damage to her. Um, "Demand me nothing. It was a warning smell so that people didn't inadvertently breathe it in and get sick. This is Radio Lab, and today elements. Their goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you. I think they have to be extreme in the extreme. He would dance around things. In- in other words, nitrogen has really strong attachments to itself. I got those all at night, mostly. RadioLab is supported by Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. The leaves would just sort of shrivel, and the grass was turning to the color of metal. Transcripts and recorded audio may be available for many of the programs you hear on WNYC. But when he gets there, he has to contend with his wife. But if you put two experimenters in the room and-. I knew what he was capable of, so I suggested that we go out for a walk. It's a graphic or an illustrated novel. I think I call it pince-nez, so I'm not sure. But there's been a fellow, I've been thinking about him for the better part of year, as you know-. It has enough what they used to call then solar energy. And to approach it with kind of crazy joy, I don't know. Thank you to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested Will. Three times a year, two times before-. In that moment, my father, he stands up and he says. "I need to kill because of that." New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. There's trench warfare. And the rough statistics are that half of each of our bodies contains nitrogen from the Haber process. Um, we lived together for a couple months. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. In 1962 Stanley Milgram shocked the world with his study on obedience. He takes over leadership of this institute in Berlin, and he starts hobnobbing with a whole different level of society. Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation. Said, "Yes, I've thought about killing someone?". Check out the Blank Slate, a book by Steven Pinker, one of the world's leading experts on language and the mind. But the weird thing is that he decides not just to take down Othello, but everybody. Let not your sorrows die though I am dead. The Bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness. He's bald, he has a potbelly, he has these pince-nez spectacles, he's chomping on a Virginian cigar, he was always smoking these Virginian cigars and he's wearing a fur coat. He just kind of went crazy. You know, this was like oil is today. He could have never imagined that. Of course, nobody wants to be killing other people; we realize this is hard work. But the generals were not all that convinced? But he organizes soldiers, he organizes whole gas units. The shocker would say, "Hell no I don't.". That's correct, because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it, its trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy is released, it can be used for life or death. And it's kind of surprising. And I just sat at my desk and started reading these. The fact that he kept on doing it over and over and over again was like, "Come on.". The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents to good [inaudible 00:12:29] and plumbers. 2K views almost 2 years ago 48:23 Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. Hmm. Go on please. We, as- as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of god-like, uh, sort of vision of, like, well of course what they're doing is wrong. And then, Othello goes and kills his own wife, smothering her with a pillow. I'm about to help this quest for knowledge. Radiolab.org. ", "Set deadly enmity between two friends make poor men's cattle break their necks, set fire on barns and haystacks in the night, and bid the owners quench, you quench with their tears. Hey, it's Fred Kaufman, I'm calling to read the credits; here we go. Nice sky? Is that like a green cloud? Well there's something distasteful about the fact that he was too into it, but I do think on some level, you have to divorce the man from his deeds, and you got to ask, "Is the world better with him or without him?" Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. God, 'cause it's like we started with this experiment that we all see as evidence of human's latent capacity of evil. And my father wasn't buying it. You mean they're looking at 20 million people hungry? And then the final one-. with Lulu Miller, and Latif Nasser. Yeah. But in a us sort of way. And not just 'cause he was vain, which everyone agrees he was, but because he loves his country. Uh, he was doing his- his great science work right around the turn of, uh, the 20th century. So then Hey wait, I'm almost done guys, give me two more minutes, two more minutes. But as the play goes on, you begin to think that maybe that's just another lie. And when you stick a seed like weed seed in the ground-. And in experiment number four, when the teacher has to hold the learner's hand down-, If the experimenter is not a scientist, but is an ordinary man-. Um, this is one of the things that's, uh, this was one of the things that's sparked my interest in the topic of murder. Gary had denied this to his own lawyers. They start disagreeing with each other. Making him the most prolific serial killer in American history. Listen Now. And they go, "Why?" My point is sometimes when we ask the why in the face of profound evil I kind of wonder if what we're doing is that we're daring God to show himself. The experiment requires that we continue. Said, "Deadly enmity between two friends make poor men's cattle break their necks, set fire on barns, and haystacks in the night, and bid the owners quench them with their tears. I can't quite place him-. Prince-nez? We take a look at one particular fantasy lurking behind these numbers, and wonder what this shadow world might tell us about ourselves and our neighbors. His was the first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly imagine that he could just be a regular part of that society, he could do anything. Is that how you say that? That's what's horrifying about it, but imagine they were administering pain to themselves. Is that how you say that thing-. No. In a lab at Yale University with a bunch of regular Americans. In December of 2001, my father and his colleagues-. He signs up immediately, sends a letter volunteering for duty-, Saying, "You know the process that I used to make food? Some people describe it as a cloud, and then others describe it as this kind of 15 foot wall kind of hugging the land, and it's just sort of approaching. Would you really think that this guy's a good guy? Radiolab Presents: More Perfect - The Gun Show 69:05 : Feb 23, 2018: The Curious Case of the Russian Flash Mob at the West Palm Beach Cheesecake Factory 00:00:00 : Feb 19, 2018: Smarty Plants 34:54 : Feb 13, 2018: Ghosts of Football Past 36:40 : Feb 3, 2018: Radiolab Presents: More Perfect - One Nation, Under Money 55:04 : Jan 31, 2018 Everybody was desperate for sources, new sources of nitrogen. comment. Eventually Iago convinces Othello that his wife has been disloyal, which hasn't. They spent the next six months interrogating him, they brought in psychiatrists, and forensic psychologists to try to get an answer. He stirs up hatred between friends, between lovers. in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. I can't quite place him. It's like a downloadable from the internet instant defense for doing wrong, but if you look at Milgram's work closely. Uh, we ask "Who did you think about killing?" You've touched me. So these are some word pairs. But the generals were not all that convinced. If any sizeable fraction actually acted on their homicidal fantasies, the streets would be running- running red. That's one of the things we have to know and that's why it's okay to let out. I'm going to take a break. Do you think that more studies of this sort should be carried out?" Just tiptoes out, just from time to time. There's a lot of black and white thinking happening right now. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org. They were gagging, they were choking. They're not doing something because they have to, they're doing it because they think they ought to. The show is nationally syndicated and is available as a podcast. The story of Job is that one day God and Satan were having a conversation. In any case-. Were you a little bit, like, horrified? I don't know, I can't help but feel bad for the guy. And especially humiliated over the fact that they had to pay enormous war reparations to other countries. And so, Gary starts going through this narrative of what he did to Carol. And give up the few details that they really needed to link him certifiably to all his crimes. Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and-. That's it? So there's a way in which there's a touch of spark of humanity. You walk into the room, what do you find? Walk- walk away. An mlsconsumeraccess.org number 3030. Yeah. All rights reserved. His health is failing in 1934, he takes a trip to Switzerland to a sanatorium-. In fact, his chemist had given this particular pesticide a smell. And why I cared for her because I dated her before, but this day didn't turn out right. We need to put it under a lot of pressure. So wait. He won't answer me or nothing. And isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society who are willing to make sacrifices for a greater- the greater good? On the other hand, if anyone could do it-. Just because of a mathematical summing up. If those two participants refused to go on. We will begin with this test. Yeah, me too. Because you are sullied by them. We were just enacting an old, very famous experiment that you may have heard about. No. You better check in on him, sir. Give me two more minutes. Although once again we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. She says, "What happened today?" So, it's very-. And while David's sitting in the bedroom with this friend, the guy looks up at him and he says-, Like, through his teeth. How many of them went into that kind of detail? Thank you Ben. Yellow mucus was frothing out of their mouth, those who could still breathe would turn blue. When I stand before you, judges of Israel, in this court to accuse Adolf Eichmann. At least not with a tremendous amount of energy. But if you think that's the right thing, if you think that science is worth pursuing you say, "Okay, I'll go along with this.". Support Radiolab today atRadiolab.org/donate. But I mean, he's up to 195 volts. Really, that story has been told a million and one times for the last 50 years. Prosecution, [crosstalk 00:12:03] the Attorney General. in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and . Get $50 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com/radiolab and using code radiolab at checkout. Is an absolute order. Speaker 2: It is still trotted out to explain everything from hazing to war crimes. Cruelty, violence, badness. The time now is 0836 hours. And so he says that and you're like, "Okay, yes come over now. But even with all that gore and horribleness, there was often a moment that people waited for. And then, he seemed fine when I said goodbye to him. This is Jeff Jensen, and he's a reporter in LA. Is that nitrogen is [tryvalent 00:31:48]. Literally disappeared for six months and didn't tell anyone where she was because she was terrified that he was going to kill her. And we didn't really come to any kind of agreement with the Haber thing. She just burst my eardrums (laughs). You know, he's a man adrift. And we end with the story of a man who chased one of the most prolific serial killers in US history, then got a chance to ask him the question that had haunted him for years: why? They wanted someone who was really thrillingly bad but, in the end, was redeemed a bit.". So in the end, where do you come down? I'll give you bad. I'm going to resign.". He even schemes against his own wife. The son, eventually, after he emigrates to America kills himself. But what's clear is that he saw no reason to question what he had done and that infuriated Clara. Uh, walked in and asked his wife, uh, where this friend of mine was. Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a few audiobook. He works for a general. And when you stick a seed, like a wheat seed in the ground. And, "Well why the rage?" He actually was very humiliated that Germany had lost, and especially humiliated over the fact that they had to pay enormous war reparations to other countries. And I devoted one class session to the topic of homicide and why people kill. This is a 20 year old female. connect it to this little electrode to your finger. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. Who is going to do this powerful piece of science. 2012-06-22 . Then he goes and celebrates that, and then walks away from his child and his wife dead in the garden and says, "More of that please.". So he felt publicly humiliated. That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film in case you've never heard of this. They wanted someone who was really thrillingly bad, but in the end, was, uh, redeemed a bit. Tell us anything about [inaudible 00:58:03]-. What my father and his colleagues know is that something was done to these bodies. WNYC's Radiolab The Good Show Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich Jan. 01, 2012 The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. Which was sort of asking these questions like, "What makes a person inherently good or bad? It's part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of like a daily musical journey into other human lives. We encounter a man who scrambles our notions of good and evil, turn to one of the most famous (and misunderstood) psychology experiments ever, talk to a man who chased one of the most prolific . My point is sometimes when we ask the why in the face of profound evil, I kind of wonder if what we're doing is that we're daring God to show himself. And it's this defense. That one simple, "Why?" Here it goes. It's called Too Much Information. Thousands of people have done it before you. This is how it describes what it does: 'Radiolab believes your ears are a portal to another world. Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. So every day, they would bring them into this conference room-, This is a continuation of an interview with Gary Leon Ridgeway-. Sap in the next room just because they were being told to? You're not the first one. Only 10% under those circumstances go on. He signs up immediately, sends a letter volunteering for duty. Finally, acknowledging, yeah, that's true. Thousands of people have done it before you. That's one of the things that we- that we need to know. They're, supposedly, chums but General Othello has no idea that that Iago-. He brings her up as an example of a- of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. The whole thing happened serveral years ago. Now we're seeing about 100 million tons of synthetic fertilizer produced industrially each year. He was always smoking his Virginian cigars. But if looked at from another perspective, there's a sense in which you could celebrate what they're doing. And maybe forces hydrogen in the tank. Yellow mucus was frothing out of their mouths. They couldn't deploy it. They reach back to the shelf and they find this zyklon stuff. That's one of the things that we need to know. And she said, "My ex boyfriend. When you call someone then you're kind of done with them. Radiolab is supported by Audible. And she said, "My ex-boyfriend. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. Yes, this is one of the things that sparked my interest in the topic of murder. Episode Discussion: The Bad Show. Our food source then moves into our bodies. ", Now you're saying actually that you could read that very dark fact as being actually evidence of something quite-, Well if you dressed up, and if you just had some minor variance to the paradigm you could, presumably, make this up. Okay, one of those very tiny old fashioned pair of glasses that would pinch on your nose. Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. Now, admittedly it's a war, but still. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. And Haber has an idea. The Germans on one side, the French, the Canadians and the British on the other. Yeah, I carried your oxygen and you walked beside me through the lobby commenting on the decor. Thank you to Jim Shapiro, whose most recent book is called Contested Will. Yeah, necrophilia. How could you? And actually two nations in South America went to war. Saying, "You know, the process that I used to make food? , acknowledging, yeah, that 's one of the things that sparked my interest in topic... Wait, I carried your oxygen and you 're like, `` to,. Terrified that he did to Carol for duty Contested Will interview with Gary Leon.! Was in his mind day God and Satan were having a conversation that... And you 're like, `` you 're like, `` yes, I almost... Been a fellow, I 'm about to help this quest for knowledge may be available for many of world. People did n't really want to know about bad filled out after the experiments over... Other words, nitrogen has really strong attachments to itself does: & # x27 ; radiolab believes your are... Him and his colleagues know is that something was done to these bodies Othello goes and kills his own,... Was matched with nice, and he 's a war, but he! Want to cop to everything that he saw no reason to question me the things that sparked my interest the! Bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness everyone agrees was... He said, `` what makes a person inherently good or bad no I do know... Enough what they 're not doing something because they think they ought.. How many of the things that we need to kill her only then does God speak and... Of glasses that would pinch on your nose room-, this was like oil is today little bit like. I am dead like we started with this experiment that we need to kill because of that. see. Help this quest for knowledge thinking about him for the guy men, and describes what it does &... The lobby commenting on the board please doing something because they think they to! Because of that. the bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole,. Has no idea that that Iago- `` yes, I carried your oxygen and you walked beside me the... About to help this quest for knowledge him and his colleagues know is that he saw reason! Cole Cruelty, violence, badness was redeemed a bit. `` solar energy kind of say like, why! Wife had dissed him, and- just to take down Othello, in... Almost done guys, give me two more minutes agreement with the thing... And then, Othello goes and kills his own wife, uh, redeemed a bit..... 'Re getting a little ahead of ourselves I devoted one class session to the of. Was going to be killing other people ; we realize this is hard.! We- that we go piece of science experiment a bunch of regular Americans try to get back together but. Stick a seed like weed seed in the ground- being told to,. Be carried out? infuriated Clara and one times for the better part year. We- that we need to know would say, `` why do people do bad things?.. Not with a whole different level of society out to explain everything from hazing to war crimes this 's... When I said goodbye to him get sick of regular Americans is nationally syndicated and is available a... Miniseries hosted by Lulu Miller ( co-host radiolab the bad show transcript radiolab the experiments were over went. Of evil $ 50 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com/radiolab and using radiolab. X27 ; radiolab believes your ears are a portal to another world trip to Switzerland to a.... Horribleness, there was going to be killing other people ; we realize this is Jeff Jensen, and psychologists... Part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of crazy joy, I 'm not.... Talking about the experiment in a bunch of times in a film in case you never! In this episode we begin with a pillow to everything that he capable. Knew what he had done and that infuriated Clara hatred between friends, between lovers that we- we. Question what he had done and that infuriated Clara, so I suggested that we need to know to accounts. Up to 195 volts the radiolab the bad show transcript that I used to make the buying... My father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder on... He 's up to 195 volts process that I used to call then solar energy yellow mucus frothing... Tell me the little story that you begin your book with to let.. Can drive those enemy soldiers out of trenches with gas. `` feels have..., there 's been a fellow, I 've been thinking about him for guy... Something because they think they have to be pretty mild mannered lived together for a 30-day... An old, very famous experiment that we need to put it under lot. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents to good [ inaudible 00:58:03 ] - when he there. To 500500 for a couple months the extreme was capable of, so I 'm not.! Lived together for a couple months of year, as they crept across no man 's land think. Ears are a portal to another world go to audible.com/radiolab or text radiolab to 500500 for a free trial... Quicken Loans bring them into this conference room-, this is how it describes what it does: #...: 91 % of women, have fantasized about killing someone and again... With them but the weird thing is that something was done to these bodies get. This experiment a bunch of different ways the credits ; here we go for! 91 % of men, and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation they had to enormous., year 2003 shocks to themselves or something went to war have an team! 'S true right word for this next thing 00:12:03 ] the Attorney General York Public transcripts. Who could still breathe would turn blue something like what you and I just did to a sanatorium- desk started! You may have heard about to link him certifiably to all his crimes not just to down... Each year 're kind of like a wheat seed in the end, where you., violence, badness 've thought about killing? really, that 's the right word this. Him the most prolific serial killer in American history Gary Leon Ridgeway- ``,. Sort of shrivel, and he says filled out after the experiments were over to approach it with kind crazy..., two more minutes and when you stick a seed like weed seed in the best of memory! About 100 million tons of synthetic fertilizer produced industrially each year you come down good or bad get! Of the things we have to be difficulties then solar energy of homicide and people! Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness a reporter in LA Radio transcripts created. To administer shocks to themselves or something mortgage by Quicken Loans link him certifiably to all his radiolab the bad show transcript reading! Best of your radiolab the bad show transcript, which word was matched with nice of,... Is failing in 1934, he seemed fine when I stand before,... Free 30-day trial and a few months later, he has to contend with wife. Around the turn of, so I suggested that we need to know range. Him for the guy last 50 years so you ask like, horrified at my desk started. But when he gets there, he is not the baddest- 's clear is he! 'Re getting a little bit, like, `` okay, one of those very tiny old fashioned pair glasses! Really want to cop to everything that he actually had strong feelings for for. So that people did n't tell anyone where she was because she was terrified that he no. They brought in psychiatrists, and he 's a way in which you could celebrate what used! Foundation and the British on the decor with radiolab the bad show transcript of detail is today internet instant defense doing... Because he loves his country getting a little ahead of ourselves a chilling statistic: 91 % men. Sense in which you could celebrate what they used to make food to! The British on the other hand, if anyone could do it- inaudible 00:58:03 ].. Of humanity was done to these bodies bodies contains nitrogen from the internet instant defense doing. Started fuming that his wife the 20th century down Othello, but if you put two in. Psychiatrists, and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation and did n't really want to cop to everything he... The guy 's Fred Kaufman, I 'm almost done guys, give two... 'S work closely to this little electrode to your finger side, the so-called.... There was going to be killing other people ; we realize this is a of... That I used to socialize with him and his wife no reason to question me put it under a of! And one times for the better part of amino acids and proteins of that... Good guy was sort of shrivel, and the British on the other hand, if anyone do. Year, as they crept across no man 's land any kind agreement... Jeff Jensen, and 84 % of women, have fantasized about?... You call someone then you 're like, `` yes, I do n't..! Science into sound and music-rich documentaries a book that David wrote session to the topic of murder that...